TRAVELLER Digest 576

Topics covered in this issue include:

  1) RE: The Bacgrounds Debate (and Debacles) by That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
  2) RE: Discarding TNE?!, & various... by That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
  3) Gamma World by lay@cod.nosc.mil (Richard Lay)
  4) Returning to the status quo by Christopher_Griffen_at_DMC-SJ3@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
  5) Automatic and Shotgun/Fletchette Rules by sam thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
  6) Jupiter probe by Simon.Harding@vuw.ac.nz
  7) Big giant in the Empty Quarter... by Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>
  8) Re: Save our timeline by Christopher Beattie <chrisb@MPGN.COM>
  9) TNE: Jump Gates, Virus, etc. by Joel Lovell <jwlovelx@ibeam.jf.intel.com>
 10) Black globes & jump by Bri <bri@teleport.com>
 11) Civvie technology charts by Bri <bri@teleport.com>
 12) Re: Discarding TNE?!, & various... by "David J. Golden" <goldendj@whip.com>
 13) RE: Discarding TNE?!, & various... by "David J. Golden" <goldendj@whip.com>
 14) Re: Space Opera the game vs Space Operas by "David J. Golden" <goldendj@whip.com>
 15) Inviting New Players to Traveller. by Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>

----------------------------------------------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:52:02 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: The Bacgrounds Debate (and Debacles)
Message-ID: <199602011652.LAA26700@chopin.udel.edu>

In Reply to Your Message of Thu, 01 Feb 1996 03: 59:05 EST
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 11:52:01 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>

: "Why a non-virus end to the rebellion?"
:
: 1)      Virus, in many people's opinions, is just plain unworkable, idiotic,
:         and annoying.

But it happened.  You can't just forget about it now.

:  2) DGP had worked it out (at least a basic timmeline), and so it
:     could be done with not too much work.

DGP propossed some events.  Most of them had to do with adventuring in
Hard Times and dealing with the "Baddies From The Core" rather than
solving the Rebellion.

:  3) It would not be the same as the classic imperium.  The Ziru Sirkaa
:     would probably be fiercely independant, and isolationist.  Brzk
:     (Bzrk?  Brzrk ?) might come back peacefully, when there was a clear
:     emperor.The solomani have retaken the sphere.  The civil populace
:     have far less faith in the system.  The attitude, especially after
:     hard times and "The second night", would be a lot different.  Much of
:     RSB could be used unchanged

I wouldn't consider the Ziru Sirkaa fiercely anything.  It's not
Vilani style.  As for Bzrk, well, he's taking the great dirt nap and
chasing his tail in puppy heaven.

: 4)      It would appease a major section of the "Traveller Amateur Historian"
:         types, who reject virus.

And upset the rest of those you may actually like it, or at least want
the last $200+ that they spent on TNE to actually mean something.

: 5)      RC & RSB settings could be produced as a separate product sub-line.
: 6)      MM has already said repeatedly that there WILL be multiple setting bo
oks
: 7)      the TNE settings would not be in any real direct competition with
:         Post-Hard Times (The Second Dawn?). The buyers would overlap, but wou
ld
:         appeal to two different mindsets
:
: "Why a rnadom/semi-random Skill Aquisition System?"
:
: Because TNE, in my experience, and that of many other GM's I know locally,
: like GURPS, Hero System, and all GDW House system Games, allows players to
: "stick to a character" in multiple incarnations, by choosing the same basic
: skills over and over.

This is not the fault of the system.  This is the fault of the
players.  If that's all they want to play, or that's all they're
interested in playing, then you can't fault the rules.  You really
need to start playing with some more creative people.

: CT and MT both had players choosing what types of skills they would get,
: but being strongly encouraged to get different types of skill mixes for
: every character. The MT Short Term Rule (an option under CT, the default
: under MT, look it up!) provides for the fact that INJURY as opposed to
: RIFs, Poor performance, or bad politcs ending a career, and also allows
: aquiring Purple Hearts.

There's no reason why you couldn't bring back the survival roll.  The
problem here is that you're comparing apples, oranges, and bananas.
The CT and MT basic character generation systems are almost identical
to the TNE one.  GURPS, FUDGE, and HERO are all points-based.  But
what you're asking for is the CT/MT advanced, which I'm sorry to say
has nothing in common with either of the aforementioned types of
character creation.

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 11:59:19 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@UDel.Edu>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: Discarding TNE?!, & various...
Message-ID: <199602011659.LAA26955@chopin.udel.edu>

In Reply to Your Message of Thu, 01 Feb 1996 04: 44:26 EST
Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 11:59:19 -0500
From: That Computer Guy <darkstar@chopin.udel.edu>

: Let's be frank here. It's obvious that you don't care much about what I
: want bcause it's not what you want. Well, the feeling is quite mutual &
: is one of the reasons GDW is gone. They told too many old-timers like me
: that they didn't care about us anymore & we reciprocated. Obviously there
: weren't enough people like you to sustain the comp. w/o those like me.
: The question is whether or not the lesson has been learned. I have hope
: that MM will make it possible for me to support Traveller once again.
: We've already seen what MT & TNE can do & neither of them cut it. Hopefully
: this will change now. Hopefully.

Let's be really frank here.  If Traveller goes where you want it to,
it will die a quicker death than TNE.  CT as a game has absolutely no
appeal in today's RPG market.  You don't believe me?  Look at the crap
that does sell.  Am I saying turn Traveller into crap?  No, I'd rather
see it out of print than done badly.

However, the attitude you're taking is no better than the one GDW
took.  You would prefer to displace all the TNE people because quite
simply, it's what you want.

MM has already propossed the solution to this problem.  Allow multiple
settings at different parts of the timeline's history.  It works!
It's simple, it's elegent, and many other companies do it.  Alas, all
the CT people seem to hate this idea.  Why?  Is it because they know
the future?  So what, set your adventure in 1050 and your characters
will never see the Rebellion.  Play in the Regency in 1202 and never
have them leave it's borders.  Play in the future ``restored
Imperium'' timeline.

The problem here is that you've all become so self-indulgent that you
would all rather destroy the opposition rather than create a workable
solution.

Funny, we've created our own fractionalized Rebellion.  Let the
history of 1116-1132 teach us something.

       --Jerry

8) Jerry Alexandratos                %  "Nothing inhabits my    (8
8) darkstar@strauss.udel.edu         %   thoughts, and oblivion (8
8) darkstar@canary.pearson.udel.edu  %   drives my desires."    (8

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 96 09:43:20 PST
From: lay@cod.nosc.mil (Richard Lay)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Gamma World
Message-ID: <9602011743.AA27771@marlin.nosc.mil>

>GammaWorld instead.  The point is the adventuring area was not Traveller
 ^^^^^^^^^^
Anyone play this anymore?
Rich


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 10:10:05 -0800
From: Christopher_Griffen_at_DMC-SJ3@dmcwave.com (Christopher Griffen)
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Returning to the status quo
Message-ID: <11103420@MailXFER.DMCWAVE.COM>

>>As for the timeline, I'm at a loss as to why the CT/MT camp want to discard
the TNE background. They say they want the Rebellion to end, and then Hard Times
to pass without the release of virus, but then the Imperium will return to what?
Basically Classic Traveller again, so if that is the game they want to play,
why can't they just play it in the CT part of the timeline, and leave the
future for people who want to do more than just return to the status quo.<<

I think that about says it all.  I find it amusing that there's this lunatic
fringe out there that wants to ruin the party for those of us who moved forward.
 I have news for those folks:  CT and MT were not God's gift to RPGs!

CT, with it's "zen-like simplicity" was a fine system, but in sore need of
evolution.  That evolution came in the form of MegaTraveller, a hastily thrown
together, but not altogether unworkable system, and more recently in TNE.

TNE, no matter what you think about the background, has a very good, very
playable rule set.  I don't think the dissidents even gave it a chance.  They
just let hysteria take hold and fester over the years.

Just like any rule system, it takes time to get used to.  Now that I and the
players in my group are accustomed to TNE, we conduct combat sessions in just
slightly longer than it took us to do them in MegaTraveller.  Yeah, it's
different from CT and MT, which is not a bad thing.  But the basics are still
there.  Some people on this list make it sound like they threw out the whole
thing.  We still have skill levels!  We still have UPPs!  We still have a task
system!  The mechanics have been improved for combat, but TNE's essentially an
improvement and a natural evolution of its predecessors.

What's done is done.  We're talking GDW-canonized material here, not the shoddy
_decanonized_ Beyond and Vanguard Reaches JG materials.  I loyally stuck by GDW,
despite whatever misgivings I had about the Virus and Collapse and moved
forward.  Despite what some of the dissidents may think, the TNE background and
rules are not half bad.

Throwing out the timeline in favor of the static status quo of CT would be the
single _worst_ thing that could happen to Traveller.

--Chris

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 13:17:17 -0600
From: sam thomas <sinbad@dfw.net>
To: hiwg-list@fwe.com
Cc: gdw-beta@quark.qrc.com
Subject: Automatic and Shotgun/Fletchette Rules
Message-ID: <2.2.32.19960201191717.006b2860@dfw.net>

To All,

I may have missed it but has anyone a better solution for the "Fragged" TNE
automatic weapons (Bursts et al),and the shotgun/fletchette, that are in the
TNE main book. If you do could you please email them to me.
Preferably in Dos/PC format and zipped.

Thanks

Sinbad Sam
AI Virus Expansion Coordinator
sinbad@dfw.net


------------------------------

Date: Fri, 2 Feb 1996 08:34:39 +1300
From: Simon.Harding@vuw.ac.nz
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Jupiter probe
Message-ID: <199602011934.IAA27537@rata.vuw.ac.nz>


>
>     Gas Giant refuelling would be a dramatic process. The atmosphere would
>     shade from dark through sky blue to grubby brown colouring the deeper you
>     go, becoming pitch black at greater depths. You would have a subjective
>     sensation of your date hanging out above the biggest damn cookpot in the
>     universe; huge storms would be screaming past below you as you descend.
>     Phenomenal lightning storms would fill the radio spectrum with white
noise
>     - bad news for comms and radar. Ever wonder how those SDBs stay hidden
in a
>     gas giant?
>
>     GG refuelling would be pretty damn dangerous too. If you wanted a nice
safe
>     refuelling (eg merchants, warships on routine missions), you would:
>     a) Seek out clear, storm free areas on the GG (I imagine this would be an
>     interesting task on Jupiter; and will the area stay storm free for long?)
>     b) Make a number of slow skims at high altitude to minimise the
effects of
>     atmospheric turbulence
>
>     If you wanted to refuel FAST (warship entering hostile system, suspected
>     enemy SDBs in the GG, merchant being chased by corsairs...) you would:
>     a) Hook into a stormy area so the gas hits the ramscoops at high speed
>     b) make a single, fast, deep entry to try to get it all in as few
passes as
>     possible
>     c) Hang onto dem luckydice and say plenty of prayers to whatever deity
>     oversees complete idiots.
>
>     All this seems to justify why many people would want to buy unrefined
fuel
>     from a starport; it would also justify why the gas giant 'Wildcatters'
>     could expect to be paid for the stuff. Running costs, insurance, doctors'
>     bills ("Sorry, you say were struck by a bolt of lightning the size of the
>     Earth? Please excuse me a minute. <bzzzzt!> Hello, Security? ")
>
>     While you're doing this (refuelling, not being locked up in psycho ward),
>     your High Guard could be playing hide & seek with the enemy amongst the
>     moons and ring system, using the magnetosphere to mask enemy sensors.
>
>     Last note: I gather that gas giants are what give the solar system a
great
>     big hoovering & keep them damn comets from landing on our heads every
>     couple of years. I'd guess that a system without a GG would have heaps of
>     debris like comets, meteors, screwdrivers, coke cans, uneaten felafels
and
>     other such crap floating about, slotting dumb Belters through the
faceplate
>     every now and then. Meteor impacts etc would be very very common in
such a
>     system.
>
>     Tell me if I'm wrong.
>     MB
>

Check out the latest on Jupiter:

GALILEO PROBE SUGGESTS PLANETARY SCIENCE REAPPRAISAL

    Preliminary analysis of early data returned by NASA's
historic Galileo probe mission into Jupiter's atmosphere has
provided a series of startling discoveries for project scientists.

    Information on the extent of water and clouds and on the
chemical composition of the Jovian atmosphere is particularly
revealing.  Probe instruments found the entry region of Jupiter
to be drier than anticipated, and they did not detect the
three-tiered cloud structure that most researchers had
postulated.  The amount of helium measured was about one-half
of what was expected.

    These initial findings are encouraging scientists to
rethink their theories of Jupiter's formation and the nature of
planetary evolution processes, according to probe project
scientist Dr. Richard Young of NASA's Ames Research Center,
Mountain View, CA.

    "The quality of the Galileo probe data exceeds all of our
most optimistic predictions," said Dr. Wesley Huntress, NASA
Associate Administrator for Space Science.  "It will allow the
scientific community to develop valuable new insights into the
formation and evolution of our solar system, and the origins of
life within it."

    The probe made the most difficult planetary atmospheric
entry ever attempted, according to probe manager Marcie Smith
of NASA Ames.  Entering Jupiter's atmosphere on Dec. 7, 1995,
it survived entry speeds of over 106,000

mph, temperatures twice those on the surface of the Sun and
deceleration forces up to 230 times the strength of gravity on
Earth.  It relayed data obtained during its 57-minute descent
mission back to the Galileo orbiter more than 130,000 miles
overhead for storage and transmission to Earth.  The orbiter is
now embarking on a two-year mission to study Jupiter and its moons.

    "The probe detected extremely strong winds and very intense
turbulence during its descent through Jupiter's thick
atmosphere.  This provides evidence that the energy source
driving much of Jupiter's distinctive circulation phenomena is
probably heat escaping from the deep interior of the planet,"
Young said.  "The probe also discovered an intense new
radiation belt approximately 31,000 miles above Jupiter's cloud
tops, and a veritable absence of lightning," he noted.

    The composition of Jupiter's atmosphere offered some
surprises, according to project scientists.  It contains
significantly lower than expected levels of helium, neon, and
certain heavy elements, such as carbon, oxygen and sulfur.

    The issue of the colors of Jupiter's atmosphere has been
much-debated, but no consensus has developed from probe data to
date.  The probe encountered no solid objects or surfaces
during its entire 373-mile (600 km) journey.  This was as
expected for a gas-giant planet such as Jupiter.

    What are the implications of these findings?  Most
scientists believe that Jupiter has a bulk composition similar
to that of the gas and dust cloud of the primitive solar nebula
from which the planets and our Sun were formed, with added
heavy elements from comets and meteorites.  The probe's
measurements may necessitate a re-evaluation of existing views
of how Jupiter evolved from the solar nebula.  For example, the
lower-than-expected helium and neon levels on Jupiter relative
to the Sun influence scientific understanding of the process of
fractionation, the "raining out" of helium and neon during
planetary evolution.

    During the probe's high-speed, atmospheric-entry phase,
deceleration measurements high in the atmosphere showed
atmospheric density to be much greater than expected.
Corresponding temperatures were also much higher than
predicted.  The high temperatures appear to require an
unidentified heating mechanism for this region of the atmosphere.

    Following probe parachute deployment, six science
instruments on the probe collected data throughout 97 miles
(156 km) of the descent.  During that time, the probe endured
severe winds, periods of intense cold and heat and strong
turbulence.  The extreme temperatures and pressures of the
Jovian environment eventually caused the probe communications
subsystem to terminate data transmission operations.

    Earth-based telescopic observations suggest that the probe
entry site may well have been one of the least cloudy areas on
Jupiter.  At this location, the probe did not detect the three
distinct layers of clouds (a topmost layer of ammonia crystals,
a middle layer of ammonium hydrosulfide, and a final, thick
layer of water and ice crystals) that researchers had anticipated.

    Some indication of a high-level ammonia ice cloud was
detected by the net flux radiometer.  Evidence for a thin cloud
which might be the postulated ammonium hydrosulfide cloud was
provided by the nephelometer experiment.  There was no data to
suggest the presence of water clouds of any significance.  The
vertical temperature gradient obtained by the atmospheric
structure instrument was characteristic of a dry atmosphere,
free of condensation.  Only the one, distinctive cloud
structure was identified, and that was of modest proportion.

    The latest analyses of data from the Voyager spacecraft
that flew by Jupiter in 1979 have suggested a water abundance
for the planet of twice the solar level (based on the Sun's
oxygen content).  Observations of the propagation of
atmospheric waves across Jupiter's cloud tops from the Comet
Shoemaker-Levy 9 impacts implied that Jupiter might have a
water content of ten times the solar level.  Actual probe
measurements, while subject to scientific debate, suggest a
level near that of the Sun.  Scientists are left to wonder,
"where is the oxygen?," "where is the water?," and to
reconsider their interpretation of the S-L 9 impacts.

    Scientists had expected to find severe winds on Jupiter
ranging up to 220 mph.  However, the probe appears to have
detected winds far greater, perhaps up to 330 mph.  The winds
remained fairly constant as the probe descended deep into the
Jovian atmosphere.  This suggests that Jupiter's winds are not
caused by differential sunlight at the equator versus the poles
or by heat released by water condensation as on Earth,
according to project scientists.

    "The origin of Jupiter's winds appears to be the internal
heat source which radiates energy up into the atmosphere from
the planet's deep interior," Young said.  "This impacts Jupiter's
climate and circulation patterns, and suggests a jet stream-like
mechanism rather than swirling hurricane or tornado-like storms."

    The probe found that lightning occurs on Jupiter only about
one-tenth as often as on Earth.  This is puzzling, but
consistent with the absence of water clouds.  A virtual absence
of lightning reduces the probability of finding complex organic
molecules in Jupiter's atmosphere, particularly given its
hostile, predominantly hydrogen composition.

    Scientists caution that results obtained to date, while
dramatic and exciting, are only preliminary and subject to much
further analysis and refinement.  Data transmission problems
associated with solar conjunction between the Earth and
Jupiter, the need to refine estimates based on probe and
orbiter trajectories, the presence of higher than anticipated
instrument temperatures, and the need for improved calibration
all require a cautious approach to these early findings.

    Additional information will be forthcoming over the next
few months as scientists continue to evaluate the wealth of
data obtained by the probe and to cross-compare results of
individual scientific instruments.  Further information and
images about the Galileo mission to Jupiter can be accessed on
the Internet through the following three URLs:

              http://ccf.arc.nasa.gov/dx
              http://ccf.arc.nasa.gov/galileo_probe/
              http://www.jpl.nasa.gov/galileo

    The Galileo probe project is managed by NASA's Ames
Research Center, Mountain View, CA.  Hughes Aircraft Co., El
Segundo, CA, designed and built the probe; General Electric,
Philadelphia, PA, built the probe's heat shield.  NASA's Jet
Propulsion Laboratory, Pasadena, CA, built the Galileo orbiter
spacecraft and manages the overall mission.

Simon Harding
Administrative Assistant
Graduate Students Office













------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 14:27:23 -0500 (EST)
From: Alvin Plummer <alvin.plummer@sheridanc.on.ca>
To: Leroy William Lu Guatney <lguatne@wemadeit.ecte.uswc.uswest.com>
Cc: traveller@MPGN.COM, xboat@MPGN.COM
Subject: Big giant in the Empty Quarter...
Message-ID: <Pine.OSF.3.91.960201141655.28169A-100000@atlas.sheridanc.on.ca>

OK, there's this big supergiant in Empty Quarter 1530, a M4 1a class
star.  I'm tempted to just break it down, but is there any way I can save
it as a supergiant?

Something *will* have to be done, as this star 'as is' would be brighter
than Antares in Earth's sky, according to my annonymous informer...

------------------------------------------------------------------------------
Alvin Plummer
'Imperial Cartograpgher', but worthless in astronomy.

Reply to: alvin.plummer@SHERIDANC.ON.CA
------------------------------------------------------------------------------

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 15:20:13 -0500
From: Christopher Beattie <chrisb@MPGN.COM>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Save our timeline
Message-ID: <199602012020.PAA04406@Central.KeyWest.MPGN.COM>

I would just like to make one comment on the
TNE timeline, which some people would like
to wave away with a magic wand.  PLEASE DON'T.

While I understand that there is a valid
argument why people hate the TNE setting,
and I understand the part about wanting
to play in a cannon universe, I feel very
uncomfortable about removing a pice of
history, that like it or not, (and you
might not like it, but that is the real
world, things exist which we don't like)
the TNE history is a part of the history
of Traveller.  Changing TNE history would
be just as wrong as changing MT or CT
history.

I believe that the best thing we can do is
throw Traveller forward into the future
where the Virus is a almost forgotten memory,
much like the black death is to us today.

Idealy we can divide the known area of space
into CT level tech, MT level tech and Really
High Level tech, to allow several playing styles
as long as each is supported equally.  Otherwise
someone will probably be unhappy, but on the
other hand that is the real world. (see above)

There was a group mentioned in the Hitchicker's
Guide to the Galaxy series, the society for the
preservation of REAL TIME.  Preserve our time
line, even the soggy bits, otherwise there might
not be a timeline left, once you start cutting.


|     _____         |Christopher Beattie |Tantalus Incorporated|
|  ___ |[]|_n_n_I_c |Tantalus @ Key West |        P.O. Box 2310|
| |___||__|###|____)|Development Division|   Key West, FL 33045|
|  O-O--O-O+++--O-O |chrisb@mpgn.com     |Phone: (305) 293-8100|
| Opinions expressed here belong to me!  |  Fax: (305) 292-7835|


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 12:28:31 -0800
From: Joel Lovell <jwlovelx@ibeam.jf.intel.com>
To: "'TRAVELLER Mail List Postings'" <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: TNE: Jump Gates, Virus, etc.
Message-ID: <01BAF0A0.CD04FE00@blackice.jf.intel.com>

>>        I'm not clear on what jump gates have to do with j-torps. I've
>>never even heard j-gates MENTIONED in CT. Obviously, they could affect
>>CT background by quite a bit.

>Check out "Secret of the Anchients", a CT adventure by GDW. (I think it =
was
>12). It includes Gates, but they lead to alternate realities (pocket
>universes). However, they can be set up so as to make stargate systems.
>-Wil

I liked the normal traveller universe, and I liked the megatraveller =
developments, and I also like the TNE setting.  I did have a problem =
with leaving behind the normal traveller universe and ended up using the =
following premise:

The entire Virus history TNE setting is actually an alternate reality.  =
The other
reality on the other side of the gate is the normal traveller universe =
without the
Virus events, and both universes are going to be available within the =
campaign for the characters.  (Especially when I get more information on =
the normal traveller universe).

In my campaign, this virus history universe has an explanation for the =
"implausibility" of the Virus event:  At the time of the Virus "release" =
no virus was released, instead, yet another gate to a truly alien =
universe/reality was opened, a literal Pandora's box.  In this universe, =
the force unleased manifested as the "virus", although it was in =
actuality something alien, so much so that it was as some dark magic out =
of fantasy.  In my campaign, I worked out a semi-hard sci-fantasy =
explanation for Virus, which resulted in the same end result, but was =
more palatable than the inconsistancies of the virus described in the =
TNE book.

I created a nice summary table (for my own GM screen) listing combat =
resolution in
adequate detail for someone new to the game to be able to resolve =
things.   I also
created some variations to the combat rules to increase the realism, =
without making
drastic changes.  - if anyone is interested in these, just email me.

jwlovelx@ibeam.intel.com

------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 13:45:08 -0800 (PST)
From: Bri <bri@teleport.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Black globes & jump
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960201134109.12484A-100000@kelly.teleport.com>

 someones post about deep-space way stations/CPs got me thinking...
 Is it possible to jump *inside* a operation black globe?
 If it were, you get a way station and mount a black globe and put a
*huge* diameter on it(bigger then G), with a few tiny non-moving probes
outside for sensors and commo(they would relay data -via- a 10MJ commo
laser, and they would be placed off center so you coulden't find the
black globe just by connecting the dots).
 Advantages:
 Impossible to find(well, might as well be)
 A fairley cheap investment(Compared to warships!), it should be under
MCr200 for the entire system
 Defensible
 Disadvantages:
 Need a self-contained power source
 If you knock out your drones outside the globe, your blind as a bat
 No 2-way communications unless you drop the globe(the drones could have
a code to signal the base to drop the globe, or relay the message and the
base commander could decide)

Bri <bri@teleport.com>
"Calling J-Man Kink.  Calling J-Man Kink.  Hash missle sighted, target
Los Angeles.  Disregard personal feelings about city and intercept."


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 14:20:45 -0800 (PST)
From: Bri <bri@teleport.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Civvie technology charts
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960201141902.12484B-100000@kelly.teleport.com>

 NAY! NAY! NEVER!
 It(Civilization) has the *most* unrealistic technology handling I have
*ever* seen.
 Note: A armour or a bomber unit built when you don't even have gunpowder
or combustion(it *is* possible, I've done it) is just as effective as one
built with futuretech 130(I've had FT130 bombers loose to 20th century
riflemen!)

Bri <bri@teleport.com>
"Calling J-Man Kink.  Calling J-Man Kink.  Hash missle sighted, target
Los Angeles.  Disregard personal feelings about city and intercept."


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 16:09:00 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@whip.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Discarding TNE?!, & various...
Message-ID: <1.5.4b11.32.19960201230900.006f1530@lynx.csn.net>

At 04:44 am 2/1/96 -0500, Phil Pugliese wrote:
>It's GDW's (& your) ox that's gone astray & the demise of GDW shows how
>far astray that ox has gone. Traveller did best with the original back-
>ground & that's where it should return if it wants to survive.
>
>Let's be frank here. It's obvious that you don't care much about what I
>want bcause it's not what you want. Well, the feeling is quite mutual &
>is one of the reasons GDW is gone. They told too many old-timers like me
>that they didn't care about us anymore & we reciprocated. Obviously there
>weren't enough people like you to sustain the comp. w/o those like me.

        So now you want Marc Miller to make the same mistake, and piss off
those of us who like the new stuff? Let's see, we've alienated many of the
"old fogies," many of whom probably won't be back anyway. Let's see if we
can drive away the people who still like what we're doing, and then avoid
attracting new people! Then Traveller will well and truly be dead, and we
won't have anything left to argue about.

>The question is whether or not the lesson has been learned. I have hope
>that MM will make it possible for me to support Traveller once again.

        Explain to me again why you're unable to run any kind of campaign
you like? Others seem to have no problem running non-virus campaigns ...
Sounds to me like you're one of those people who won't be satisfied with
anything MM decides to do if it strays even slightly from your Holy Writ.
 ___________________________________________________________________
  Dave Golden                              PGP Public Key available
  goldendj@whip.com        http://www.whip.com/~goldendj/index.html

  "Faith is not belief without knowledge.
   Faith is trust without reservation." -- unknown


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 16:09:06 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@whip.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: RE: Discarding TNE?!, & various...
Message-ID: <1.5.4b11.32.19960201230906.006fb1ec@lynx.csn.net>

At 12:23 pm 2/1/96 -0500, Jerry Alexandratos wrote:

>Funny, we've created our own fractionalized Rebellion.  Let the
>history of 1116-1132 teach us something.

        Since when has anybody demonstrated the ability to learn from
history. Single individuals occasionally can, but not groups.
 ___________________________________________________________________
  Dave Golden                              PGP Public Key available
  goldendj@whip.com        http://www.whip.com/~goldendj/index.html

  "Faith is not belief without knowledge.
   Faith is trust without reservation." -- unknown


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 01 Feb 1996 16:09:03 -0700
From: "David J. Golden" <goldendj@whip.com>
To: traveller@MPGN.COM
Subject: Re: Space Opera the game vs Space Operas
Message-ID: <1.5.4b11.32.19960201230903.006f0a58@lynx.csn.net>

At 08:56 am 2/1/96 -0500, Will Richards wrote:
>  Yes I would like traveller to return to it's old story line prior to Virus.
>I would like to see a simplification of the rules or at least a basic rules
>set. The current TNE system requires access to the net to find the modules
>to plug and chug into your equipment, or you will have to do it all your self.
>Time like silence is golden, why waste it trying to figure out a complicated
>rule system when there is a simpler one that is just as much fun.

        Because there are customers who like the detail and don't think the
"simpler one" is as much fun ... and by doing it right you can support
_both_ the detail and the non-detail people. See the suggestions people have
made for a "Non Gearhead" design system, which is a plug-and-chug
_compatible_ subset of the full-up system (without needing to surf the net
to find modules).

        One of the biggest gripes I have about this ongoing debate are the
number of people willing to shut out others simply because they don't like
the part of the game others like. The "gearheads" have been supporting a
simple design system in the basic game, but the simple people have been
shouting "away with the detailed system! We don't want it, so nobody
should!" Likewise, the anti-TNE fanatics have been shouting "Down with the
Evil Virus! We cannot abide it, and neither should anybody else!" ignoring
the fact most of the New Era folks have been SUPPORTING multiple settings
(including, BTW, Mr. Miller).

        Folks, how about a little tolerance for other people's interests?
It's quite possible to compromise and make _everybody_ at least a little happy.
 ___________________________________________________________________
  Dave Golden                              PGP Public Key available
  goldendj@whip.com        http://www.whip.com/~goldendj/index.html

  "Faith is not belief without knowledge.
   Faith is trust without reservation." -- unknown


------------------------------

Date: Thu, 1 Feb 1996 20:54:33 -0500 (EST)
From: Charles Collin <charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>
To: Trav Mailing List <traveller@MPGN.COM>
Subject: Inviting New Players to Traveller.
Message-ID: <Pine.SUN.3.91.960201204825.4823C-100000@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca>

In the last Traveller Digest, Simon Harding wrote:

<<<<<<<<<<<
Don't.  Find something constructive to do with your time.
>>>>>>>>>>>

Simon, did you mean:
"Don't.  Find something constructive to do with your time. :-D"
or did you mean:
"Don't.  Find something constructive to do with your time. :-|"

If the latter, then this is no way to invite new players into Traveller!
I'm guessing you were joking, but you should maybe have made that a bit
clearer.  We don't want to inadvertently scare away the next gen of
Traveller fans, now do we?

(Yes, I'm probably making a big deal out of nothing :-)
Charles.

<0>         "The past is as unknowable as the future..."<0>
<0> Charles Collin (charles@hebb.psych.mcgill.ca), <0>
<0> Psychology Department, McGill University.  <0>
<0> 1205 Dr. Penfield, Montreal, Quebec, Canada, H3A 1B1.  <0>



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End of TRAVELLER Digest 576
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